Reuben Swartz – Page 3 – Sales for Nerds

082 Jay Kingley on Referrability

Jay Kingley on Sales for Nerds to talk about referrals

Jay was a chemical engineer who went into management consulting, because he loved solving problems. His family was in business, so he grew up with this.

He joined a firm that had spun out of Bain in London and loved the work. But as he moved up and became a partner, he had to sell, which he didn’t find interesting at all.

He looked at what the other partners did– they entertained clients. Jay didn’t want to do that.

He wanted to solve problems. So he’d read about what was going on in his clients’ industries, then he’d call the CEO and talk about what was happening.

Jay decided to start helping smaller companies. He tried the networking groups and all that. It worked but was not a good use of time.

In this episode, learned what Jay learned, including:

How the 98% Typical elevator pitch (I solve these problems, for these types of clients, by providing this type of service) differs from the 2% elevator pitch, which makes the client the hero. This goes back to the great Christmas movie of all time (Die Hard– this is why Jay and I get along)– you have to be able to identify with, and root for, the hero.
Don’t confuse marketing (1 to many) with sales (1 to 1).
How to get someone to really listen to your advice.

Plus the 3 stages of marketing:

0: Spray and pray (“random acts of marketing”)
1: Targeted outbound prospecting. Can work quickly– in about 90 days, but not efficient.
2: Referrals. (Introductions are often a waste of time. Referrals are a bit better, but if you are one of 3 referrals, you’re going to waste a lot of time.
3: Provocative Perspective. Offer a contrarian perspective that people can tell to their network. Then the people who find the story resonates want to talk to you. Simon Sinek is a great example of this strategy.

Why should people help share your Provocative Perspective? Because these people know they need to nurture their relationships and provide a lot of value, but they need something to say.

The Wine

Reuben enjoys Sorpasso Italian red.

Jay has a (giant glass of) California Merlot.

Where to find Jay

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (It also tracks referrals and how much business you get from them.)

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081 Michael Roderick on getting people to talk about you when you’re not in the room

Michael went from a high school english teacher to Broadway producer in 2 years, powered by a network that he not only created and nurtured, but empowered to help him.

He read Seth Godin’s book Linchpin, and realized he was part of a system for churning out factory workers. He realized he needed to pursue his Broadway dream, and “it not now, when?”

Later, he deconstructed how he’d been able to pull off this transition, and he realized it wasn’t just that he met with a lot of people– he empowered these people to talk about him (in a good way) when he wasn’t around.

He codified his learning in a set of easy to remember (and mention) frameworks. For example…

Why do people refer you? To make themselves look good. Use the S.U.R.E. framework to assist:

Shortcut– make it easy to process and use
Utility– make it useful for the person hearing it
Reputation– make the referrer look good
Expedient– make it easy to mention

Don’t think of your offering, think of the problem your ideal prospect wants to solve, and help them solve a small piece of it, like a magician showing how he does one of his tricks.

This could be an assessment or other useful, actionable piece of information. For example, Michael often talks to experts who have valuable intellectual property that they deploy on behalf of their clients, but they don’t package it the way Simon Sinek or Brené Brown did. So he says that if you know an expert who’s far more obscure than they should be, fill out the “Jargon Grid” to get ideas for packaging your ideas.

I call this a “verbal Lead Magnet that your network can deploy on your behalf”, which Michael says is right on.

To get people talking about you, follow Michael’s 3 Principles of Referability (A.I.M.):

Accessibility— can people understand it outside the “Echo Chamber of the Enlightened”— anchor in something someone already knows
Influence— will people share it without you asking— make them look good
Memory— make it easy to retell the story— focus on L.E.S.S.

Expanding the L.E.S.S. framework:

Langage— have your own way of saying things that carve out mental space for you (“venti coffee”)
Emotion—illicit emotion to access memory
Simplicity— don’t share a 27 point checklist. Keep it simple.
Structure— provide order to process information– short lists, quadrants, etc.

What are you going to do to get more people talking about you (in a good way) when you’re not in the room?

The Wine

Reuben enjoys Chateau Jander from Moulis-en-Medoc, Bordeaux.

Michael has a Sales for Nerds first: Whiteclaw Ruby Grapefruit.

Books

Linchpin: Are you indispensable? by Seth Godin

Where to find Michael

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”.

It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network. Plus, the “Mission and Positioning” screen will help you refine your message, and give you lots of ideas for catchy phrases that will make you more referable. Meanwhile, use Lead Magnets to help turn those referrals into leads and conversations. Get a list of 25 Consulting Lead Magnet ideas here.

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080 Franklin Taggart on creating a creative (and profitable) business

Franklin Taggart, host of the “Your Own Best Company” and the “Daily Virtual Coffee Break” podcasts, coaches freelancers, solopreneurs, and artists on how to connect with audiences and find clients, in a way that suits their skills, personality, and lifestyle.

He was a professional guitar player, and still teaches and also helped kids with anti-gang interventions. He fell into coaching accidentally, after a friend asked him to help facilitate a coaching retreat.

In this episode, learn:

How Franklin fell into coaching, and why he didn’t even think of it as “coaching” (plus, why he’s still suspicious of coaches, and what’s a sign of a good coach).
Why you’re not a “thought leader”, and why humility is important for successful work.
How to ask the right questions to find the people you really enjoy working helping (and the questions Franklin asks).
Why “following your passion” is not good advice, and what to do instead.

The Wine

Reuben enjoys Prodigal Pinot Noir while Franklin is still working on his coffee.

Where to find Franklin

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network. Plus, the “Mission and Positioning” screen will help you refine your message, and give you lots of ideas for videos.

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079 Mark Firth on YouTube video marketing

Mark Firth is a traveler of both virtual and physical worlds, moving from London to Bogota and now on to Florida. In Colombia, he realized his Spanish wasn’t good enough for local business, and his attempts to teach English were getting commoditized by the web.

He started a remote digital marketing firm, focused on LinkedIn. Initial results were good, but as the platform got flooded with spam (and LinkedIn services became more commoditized), Mark realized he needed to have more control over this destiny.

In this episode, learn how:

The YouTube algorithm is different from other social media sites
To get started producing video, without fancy equipment
To combine online video and your existing mailing list
Be patient and “find your voice”
To grow beyond the control of anyone else’s platform
The best way to show that you can help people

Of course, we had to put the YouTube video here. 😉

The Wine

Reuben enjoys some Devil’s Corner Tasmanian Pinot Noir (never tried wine from Tasmania before– quite nice– a lot of cranberry), while Mark has some cold green tea.

Where to find Mark

And the book Mark mentioned: The YouTube Formula: How Anyone Can Unlock the Algorithm to Drive Views, Build an Audience, and Grow Revenue, by Derral Eves.

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

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078 Michael Buzinski on Doubling Your Business with the Rule of 26

Michael Buzinski didn’t take your typical path to digital marketing. He was a professional jazz trombonist at age 13. He realized he could go as far as he needed in sales without a college degree, but not in marketing, so he joined the air force. He started a recording studio in 2005, but realized that starving musicians were not great business prospects, so he pivoted to serving business owners.

He grew a multimillion dollar agency, with hundreds of clients. Yet growth and scaling are two different things, and the rapid growth caused more problems than it solved, especially because they weren’t charging enough.

So Michael created a new virtual agency, helping small businesses grow beyond word-of-mouth. Michael is the author of The Rule of 26, which shows how a 26% increase in 3 key metrics leads to a doubling of revenue.

(The math is straightforward: 1 x 1.26 x 1.26 x 1.26 = 2.00. This is the magic of compounding.)

Listen to the episode for more details, but here are the 3 KPIs:

Average revenue per client
Conversion rate
Traffic

In this episode, learn:

Why you want to start with average revenue, then work your way to conversion rate, and then traffic.
How to get pricing advice from your best clients.
How to make your website better at converting visitors (and why most websites are not set up to do this).
And much more…

The Wine & Rum

Michael has some Kona spiced Hawaiian rum. And I’ve got some Brave Cellars pinot noir from Willamette Valley Oregon.

Books

The Rule of 26 For Service-Based Businesses: Three Steps to Doubling Website Revenue, by Michael.

Where to find Michael Buzinski

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”.

It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network. And it can help you implement Michael’s ideas about converting visitors to leads and conversations. (Get a list of 25 Lead Magnet ideas here.)

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077 Jonathan Stark on Ditching Hourly Billing

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer turned consultant who hates hourly billing and helps people “ditch hourly” and do value-based pricing.

And somehow, I didn’t know about him until recently. (Jonathan made the observation that we’re climbing up the same mountain from different sides.)

If you’ve ever stressed about pricing a project proposal, don’t miss this episode, where Jonathan shares:

How he had an epiphany when he worked for a consulting firm about why hourly billing had to go. He spent weeks trying to figure out why his “best” consultant was the least profitable.
Why the problem was hourly billing.
How he started his own firm because he needed to get rid of hourly billing, and made more money in his first year.
How hourly billing transforms your client relationships.
Why hourly billing goes sideways (and why it tends to start sideways, because you ask different questions in the initial meeting)
How to do things in the right order– figure out the value first, including the success criteria (and can you even satisfy them?), then the price, then scope.
How to let people unburden themselves– let them brain dump, then ask the structured questions, as needed, to fill in the details.
How do paid roadmapping sessions to gather information
How to get 100% payment upfront (and what to do if you can’t)
Fixed price is not the same as cost-plus
How do deal with unknown scopes (and the real scopes are always unknown), v
How to use explicit guarantees to reduce risk for the buyer, without changing how you operate.
How to ask questions like a doctor. (Doctors don’t tell you to jump on the operating table when they first meet you.)

The Wine

It’s a California Pinot Noir kind of episode, with Jonathan enjoying some La Cream and Reuben having a glass of Grevino.

Books

Hourly Billing Is Nuts, by Jonathan.

Value-Based Fees: How to Charge and Get What You’re Worth, by Alan Weiss. (Catch Alan’s Sales for Nerds interview here.)

Where to find Jonathan Stark

LinkedIn (he doesn’t really do LinkedIn)
valuepricingbootcamp.com— 6 day free email course
JonathanStark.com (by the way– check out this website not just for the awesome info, but the awesome example of how to create a great consulting website.)

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network. And it can help you implement Jonathan’s ideas about offering different options, crafting a value-based story in your proposal (you can get a free proposal template, too).

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076 Corrie Loguidice on starting a new business

Corrie has a “very expensive piece of paper that says she can draw well.” An art degree. So instead of waiting tables, she came to join the family electronics reseller business as a graphic designer.

Instead of getting disintermediated by the internet, Corrie was able to use her graphic design skills to promote her customers, the mom and pop electronics dealers.

Corrie realized she was in an abusive marriage and got a divorce with a 5-month-old. Then she realized she was commuting 20 hours per week and paying someone to watch her son part time, just for the commute. Then, she lost her post-divorce partner to suicide.

At this point, she knew she was strong enough to keep going, but she decided to reevaluate her life.

She knew she had to leave the family business, but this was harder than all the other trials.

But Corrie got clients, a social media following, and, within a year, was on a TEDx stage. So now she teaches other people how to start their own consulting businesses.

In this episode learn:

That websites don’t get you leads (I disagree!), conversations get you leads (I agree!). “Conversations are what lead to revenue.”
How to set yourself up for financial success and handling the stress of starting your practice.
How to figure out who you help, what you do for them, and why they should care, including how to hone your niche, and even how to pivot from one niche to another.
How do this with conversations, because if you can’t do it in a conversation, how will your website do it for you? (And stop worrying about colors and brands and logos– focus on the real conversations.)
Why you shouldn’t discount, and what to do instead.
Why the gold is in the follow up.
How to feel confident when having conversations with prospects and partners, including sales conversations.
Why you don’t need to waste time and money on expensive marketing campaigns.

The Wine (& Vodka)

Corrie enjoys a cocktail of vodka, water, and watermelon juice.

Reuben enjoys a Contina di Montelcino sangiovesi. Yumm, tastes like Italy.

Where to find Corrie

LinkedIn (make sure you listen to the episode before connecting).
@iamcorrielo on Twitter
YouTube Channel
corrielogiudice.com

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

(Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

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075 Julie Brown on networking the right way

“Networking” evokes thoughts of small talk and getting stabbed in the eye with business cards, at least for some of us. But it’s essential to so many relationship-based businesses. How can we grow and nurture an awesome, helpful, fun network without feeling icky?

In this episode, Julie Brown, author of This Shit Works: A No-Nonsense Guide to Networking Your Way to More Friends, More Adventures, and More Success (and host of the This Shit Works podcast), teaches you how to grow a great network while having fun and staying true to yourself, including:

You can build a big network– over time, not over night.
How Julie treats friends and colleagues
The “shortcut” to meeting lots of the right people.
How Julie’s network helped her husband launch his architecture firm, amidst the 2008 crash, how it helped Julie launch her business, and how you can apply it your business.
Why traditional icebreaker questions are terrible, and what to ask instead.
How to handle follow up.
Whether we should be happy and/or sad about the Celtics season (OK, that’s a bit of a tangent).

The Wine

Julie enjoys some “cougar juice” (how have I not heard this term before?), in other words, some buttery chardonnay, while I have some Nine Hats Pinot Gris from Washington (it’s over 100 in Texas, and I’m drinking white).

Where to find Julie

LinkedIn (make sure you listen to the episode before connecting).
YouTube Channel
JulieBrownBd.com
Amazon

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

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074 Cynthia Zhai on using your voice effectively

We spend a lot of time and energy finding the right words (we do, right?), but how we say them matters at least as much.

In this episode, executive voice coach Cynthia Zhai joins from Singapore (thanks for being willing to have some wine on a Saturday morning) to talk about how to talk.

Cynthia recounts some of her own struggles with confidence in meetings, how she developed her voice to overcome those challenges, and how she helps others do the same thing.

Learn how:

You can change your voice– it’s not just something you’re born with.
To project confidence to others (and yourself)
To breathe and speak from your core, not just your throat (building nicely on some of the breathing tips Ashley DePaulis discussed). Cynthia demonstrates “Kung Fu Breathing” techniques that you can practice yourself (see video below).
To break out of the vicious cycle of non feeling confidence and then not sounding confident
To handle speaking too aggressively
To build habits so that even when you get nervous, your habits will keep you speaking the way you practiced
To listen to others’ voices, and to detect nervousness and dishonesty

Check out this short clip on Kung Fu breathing:

Or catch the whole interview on video:

The Wine

Cynthia has some Jacob’s Creek Australian red wine. Reuben is enjoying some Averaen Pinot Noir from Oregon.

Where to find Cynthia

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

073 Ashley DePaulis on treating your body better

As business owners, we spend a lot of time trying to make our minds more productive, often without considering that our minds are connected to our bodies. But if we don’t take care of our bodies, we miss out on joy and productivity, and we load up on stress. Ashley DePaulis, who helps large organizations prevent burnout and turnover, is here to give you tips that will make not just your business, but your life better.

Ashley was a recreational athlete, but didn’t envision making athletics and movement a core part of her life (although she did put a friend through bootcamp in 3rd grade– make sure you catch that part of the story). While she was getting her master’s degree in public health, she started working as a fitness instructor on the side, just for fun.

While working in public health policy, she kept picking up fitness clients and health coaching clients. Like many people, she accidentally started her business…

Meanwhile, when she 19, Ashley was in a severe car crash and had a case of PTSD, which returned when she got into another car crash and her PTSD came back. She did EMDR (Eye-movement Desensitization & Reprocessing) therapy, and got turned on to the capabilities at the junction of mind, body, and spirit.

“Movement is my jam.”

We have become sedentary creatures, at least many of us who work in front of computers most of the time. And this leads to chronic pain, reduced productivity, reduced joy, and a host of other problems in modern life.

To avoid this, we have to realize that our minds aren’t abstract things, they are part of our bodies. And we have to be aware of the body.

How do you know if you’re having problems?

Are you in pain? This is our body’s way of telling us that we need to change something.
Are you having trouble sleeping?
Are you anxious?

How can you do that? Ashley shares some great tips, including:

Get outside, or at least look outside, or even just look up. (Every 45 minutes of screen time should lead to 5-10 minutes of these kind of breaks for our eyes, minds, and posture.)
Note that these days people often take “breaks” by taking out their phones, which just increases the screen time and posture issues, and also tends to rev us up more, instead of reducing stress.
Breathe deeply, all the way to your belly.
Be aware of how your body is feeling. Notice what you’re noticing. Set an alarm on your phone to do this 1-3 times per day.
Drink water before coffee in the morning (I’m working on this).
Power down before bed time– a bed time routine is even more important than a morning routine.

Ashley argues that the body is not a machine (I disagreed) and it doesn’t need to be fixed. The body is always working for your survival. Pain is a signal– your body is wise and is telling you something. Pointing out that you need to take action. Pain is last signal– if you can pick up on earlier signals, you can avoid things getting bad.

So take good care of yourself– be a kinder, gentler boss to your body, and literally feel better every day.

The Wine

Reuben is enjoying some Bergevin Lane Moonspell Cabernet Sauvignon from Washington State.

Where to find Ashley

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Note this GQ article on training for boxing matches, especially where he discusses reducing his training load as the fight approaches: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/sport/article/conor-benn-boxing-workout

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