Author: Reuben Swartz

Like most of my guests, Christina Bell never intended to get into sales. She comes from a family of teachers, but needed to take a job, any job, after graduating.

She did a great job (which she credits in part to the training program) and started to train other sales reps.

Finally, she was a teacher and was welcomed back to family Thanksgiving. 😉

In this episode, Christina shares her philosophies on sales, including:

• Why sales is a sorting exercise, and why this is the key to everything else.
• The mistakes people make trying to push people too fast (and keeping them around in the pipeline too long). This is gold.
• How to make conversation and ask questions productively.
• How to make conversation flow, and how many people shut it down.
• How do you know if you’re dealing with a real opportunity? Or just someone looking for some free consulting?
• Why people talk about what they do the wrong way (and how to do it better).
• Another good reason you don’t want to cut your prices.
• Your responsibility in managing your pipeline.
• Much, much more…

Laura Roeder makes business look easy. Her latest venture, MeetEdgar.com, made it to a million in revenue in the first year. She had her own SXSW panel at 29.

But like any great story, the nitty gritty details are where it gets interesting.

Here, Laura discusses:

• How she accidentally got an advertising degree.
• How she got her first clients for her consulting business.
• Why she decided to go into marketing online courses.
• How she got the idea for MeetEdgar.
• How to connect with thought leaders online.
• How she actually got that SXSW panel.
• Why most social media updates miss their audience, and what you can do about it.

Today’s guest is Ben Seigel. Counting on fifteen years professional web experience, Ben handles project management, web design and development. He specializes in Craft and ExpressionEngine CMS.

Ben runs the Madison Web Design & Development Meetup and volunteers each year with Junior Achievement. In his spare time, he enjoys bicycling, music, travel, spirited conversation and pretending to do Parkour.

We discuss how Ben got into the web design business, his processes, getting the best results for a project and your client, design simplicity, and three quick tests you can try on your website to see if it meets industry standards for 2017.

In this week’s show:

• Building awareness of a growing medium
• Systematization
• The intake process is all about the business owner
• Planning isn’t sexy
• Interrogating a problem
• Keeping it simple
• Ben’s top 3 quick tests for your website

Links:

• Versa Studio
• Ben’s book: “Website planning for small business” — discount code for 50% off: mimiran
• Ben on Twitter: @versastudiollc
• Ben on LinkedIn: BenWeb
• Daring Fireball
• GTmetrix — site speed test
• Where you can find Reuben: @Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.

Today’s wine:

• Bartenura Moscato from Italy, 2016. Winemaker’s Notes: Crisp and refreshing, semi sweet, with lingering pear, tangerine, nectar and melon flavors on the finish. Perfect with dessert or fresh fruit, or sipping poolside.

Ben is a self taught web designer and developer. In the late ‘90s, Ben was running a lawn service and got his first computer to do his books and get online. After learning to code and design in his spare time, he got a job making websites for law firms and, after a couple of years of experience, broke out on his own.

In the early days of his agency, sales and marketing largely depended on running print ads, having conversations with business owners, and referrals to get his business up and running.

Building awareness of a growing medium

At the time, the idea that every business should have a website was relatively new. So it was important for Ben to identify the right businesses to target for his service and draw their attention to this growing online medium.

By pointing to competitors or to other local businesses, people began to get on the ‘idea train’ and understand the value of having a website. As the concept spread, it made the sales process easier.

And by being the person to educate these businesses early, Ben was able to establish himself as an expert and grow a sizeable client base at a time when the industry was growing.

Systematization

As the agency has grown, Ben has systematized processes in the business. One of these is contracting – to make contract and proposal writing easier.

He has created a standard set of feature descriptions and language for the parts of a website. From what clients get for initial mockups and designs to what they’re going to get for a branding design.

For the terms of the contracts, Ben adds a new line or paragraph to his terms and conditions every time he has a bad experience with a client – whether fault lies with the client or the agency – to avoid making the same mistake twice.

Ben’s time is roughly split: 40% on sales, 40% on client work, 20% managing other people.

The intake process is all about the business owner

Being able to translate your expertise into layman’s terms is crucial in the process of selling. It’s not your chance to talk about how smart you are and how much you know about technology, it’s your chance to figure out the client’s needs and what those needs mean to the project.

Don’t feel the need to describe your solution right away; let the client describe their problems so that you can develop the appropriate solution.

Within every organization there is a lot of institutional knowledge that can be hidden. Often people don’t know what they know because they have been working in their industry for so long.

As a result, sometimes what comes out of doing this kind of planning can be not what you expect.

It can even mean you discover that the project they have in mind is not going to give them the required return on their investment, and so you advise them against hiring you for it. This kind of honesty can develop trust; in many respects we are all sceptical around a salesperson’s claim that they are there to help you. Because we’re thinking that they’re just there to make money.

But by showing the value of uncovering this information through the intake process, and having it lead wherever it leads, you’re showing that you really are there to help.

Planning isn’t sexy

We don’t get excited for planning meetings, for digging through company strategy and bringing in employees from across the business to get their input. Site designs, logos, and new technologies are much more exciting.

Planning is hard work. But when you do it thoroughly, you have a defined and structured set of requirements that are based on the needs you have identified.

Without spending the proper time on planning, you end up with cookie-cutter sites with generic designs and copy that don’t deliver the results you need for your business.

Interrogating a problem

Continuing to dig and asking probing questions throughout the process is not only great for building relationships, it uncovers all kinds of unexpected requirements and ideas.

By continually asking ‘what am I not asking you?’ and by speaking to new people within an organization, you can uncover valuable information that can shape a project.

Keeping it simple

Ben likes to keep things as simple as possible when building clients’ websites.

Everyone wants to keep things simple in theory, but in practice, projects can often unwittingly become overly complicated.

Ben gives the example of a restaurant. There are three key things that people want to find out when they are looking for a place to eat:

• The hours
• The menu
• The location

There may be other things that people want to find out, but in its most basic form, a restaurant website should contain those key pieces of information, on a page that loads quickly and responsively on all devices.

Cluttering a page with social sharing features is not a top priority and can complicate the user experience.

Likewise, keeping content within a page strictly relevant its subject is important to the user experience and engagement as a result of that.

Daring Fireball is an excellent example we give of simplicity in design and user experience. In both design and content, this site keeps things minimal, displaying only the content that matters with no extraneous features.

Ben’s top 3 quick tests for your website

Ben advises three things that everyone should look out for on their website in 2017.

1. Responsiveness — all websites should now work across all devices (mobile, tablet, desktop).
2. Load time — if users have to wait too long for your site to load, they will leave.
3. 3rd party tests & feedback — have somebody who is not emotionally invested in the site have a look around your site, ask them to perform some basic use cases and observe any friction or faults that they encounter along the way. This will give you some things to fix to improve your user experience.

You can test your website’s load time here: GTmetrix

Get the episode now on iTunes, listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android.

And we’re back… with Anil Dash, CEO of Fog Creek Software (maker of Fog Bugz and Glitch, and incubator for Trello and Stack Overflow).

Anil’s full bio runs for paragraphs, but a few things beyond his current CEO role:

• Served as an advisor to President Obama’s Office of Digital Strategy.
• He’s a big Twitter person (we got introduced by a mutual follower). Time magazine named him one of the best accounts on Twitter in 2013, and he’s the only person to ever be retweeted by Bill Gates and Prince.
• He helped start the social media revolution with Moveable Type in the early 2000s, and he’s been blogging since 1999.
• He’s had hardware, software, sales and and executive experience, and he’s a big believer in linking together domains that are often separate.
• He started his own company instead of going to college.

We cover a lot of things in the interview, but here are some key points:

• How Anil got past his aversion to sales and reframed his perspective (this sounds familiar on this podcast, but I still love hearing everyone’s personal journey).
• How he didn’t learn to do marketing until much later, and what he did instead (and how he learned how important marketing really is).
• The importance of “non-zero-sum” incentives.
• Taking the concept of “bus-proofing”, so important in the technology world, to the sales world.
• A simple way to encourage more diversity in hiring, and why it’s good for your company.
• Why tech is lurching its way to becoming the new “Wall St”, wealthy, powerful, and detested.

Get the episode now on iTunes, listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android.